Discussions on difficult subjects

[Bosco]

Oh thank goodness!

What is the cost of making people abide do you think? The financial cost of having people employed to turn people away at stores if guidelines aren't being followed? Or the human cost of trying to tell people to do something they wont, which is futile and ultimately a time waste, and an emotional drain on anyone having to do it?
We're very lucky in Oregon, certainly in the city of Portland, that basically everyone follows the rules. The anti-maskers are very, very much in the minority and, as a result (I assume), the state has the third lowest number of deaths (and cases, I believe) in the country. Do you think there's a better solution out there that would help everyone? Or is your point more that it's kind of too late to try and change the behaviours of those people and better time and effort could be spent into other solutions (like the rush vaccine, or this new potential nose spray thing)?

The cost would be three-fold. The employment of policing, the cost of convincing of people who will relentlessly resist, and the litigation factor of defining the legal definition of "what is a violation?" (which will be countlessly challenged).

Policing public mask-wearing should have been mandated as a "state of emergency" from our government at the start of pandemic. That did not happen. CEO's of corporate "essential good" stores failed as well. They should have privately taken the step of hiring rent-a-cops to police mask wearing in-store. This did not happen (or at least in my area).

So yeah, my point is it's too late. I don't foresee the Biden campaign bringing any better solutions to the pandemic than what Trump was providing at this point. The Biden campaign's attitude will be more attentive and more sympathetic to the public, but they will be desperately chasing a vaccine just like Donald was.

[Enjoyed]

Yeah. Fair enough! Thanks for sharing.

The fact that there is STILL no single body to report violations to (social distancing and gatherings, too) is utterly ridiculous. I guess I was being close-minded and rather head-in-the-clouds with hope that Biden would be able to quell some of the spread in some way. But I think you're right. The states where masks are still not mandated, and schools are open, and concerts and large gatherings are still happening, aren't suddenly going to listen to the new president they didn't vote for. Maybe there's hope that some of the right that is now trying to distance themselves from Mr. Trumpers will have a more tempered and humanitarian approach to it? In an effort to claw back some of the support they lost by supporting him in the first place? Probably not.

[sandelic]

Trying not to pay attention to the results until we actually know.  I just buried my dad, so my anxiety can't take it.  I also can't take much more of people who aren't doing the bare fucking minimum to stop spreading the very thing that killed my father.  This shit went nowhere, but our sanity, comprehension of basic science, and any compassion for others skipped town.

So sorry to hear that.
My most sincere condolences.

[neorev]

[Wolkenkrabber]

A little dramatic but overall...yes.
https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1327301202825121793

Also I was amused that Giuliani went ahead with a press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping despite the fact that they clearly booked the wrong venue.
Not as amused as this lady. But pretty amused.
https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1325715273647878144

[Stefan]

Oh what a beautiful rant. I wish I could be angry so eloquently. Also, I don't find it overly dramatic. Even after four years, I'm still shocked that somebody like Trump, with his complete disregard and ignorance of democratic principles, his unwillingness to govern for anyone but himself, his brazen corruption and nepotism, his overt racism and sexism, could become a candidate for a presidency, let alone win an election in an alleged free democracy. I'm incredilby glad that he will be gone soon.
The sad thing is that the system and structures which enabled him in the first place are still there.

Oh, the Four Seasons Total Landscaping incident was hilarious!

[Enjoyed]

Oh, the Four Seasons Total Landscaping incident was hilarious!

Also I was amused that Giuliani went ahead with a press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping despite the fact that they clearly booked the wrong venue.

Whenever I'm feeling down (reading too much Reddit, remembering that almost 50% of this country voted for another 4 years of destruction, knowing that an absolutely insane number of people think this election was fraudulent despite LITERALLY 0 EVIDENCE) I think of this utterly hilarious fuck up. On that Saturday a friend was sending me meme after meme about the whole situation. It's glorious. It brings me much joy. A press conference between a funeral home and a sex shop, because Trump and his lying cronies should all go fuck themselves and die 

[Wolkenkrabber]

Oh what a beautiful rant.

Well in that case you might like this. I realise Norton is just an actor, but woah, this 7-tweet thread seems to have some resonance.
Do Americans think Trump will be prosecuted for tax avoidance (or other stuff) once he stops being President, or is that just tribal talk?

https://twitter.com/EdwardNorton/status/1329728890143576070

[Conn6orsuper117]

Sometimes I hate being an American

https://twitter.com/i/status/1344306176805249027

[Bosco]

embarrassing

[Conn6orsuper117]

I just now woke up to this on my day off (a day that makes me forget about the world and relax) and all over the internet and TV the capitol is under control by Trump Supporters, proud boys and the Neo-Nazis.

I can't believe this is my country. I never hated being a U.S. citizen more than ever in my life.

EDIT: people have broken into the senate floor, and somebody is unpacking something in their backpack. where are the cops?

[sandelic]

If someone told me 20 years ago that I would be seeing sights such as I've seen today in US Capitol building, I would told him/her to take their meds.
That people would be shot and explosive devices would be used, is beyond the pale.
Trump should and must be held responsible for insurrection.
If not treason.
Good Lord, world has gone completely mad!

[Stefan]

The frustrating thing is that this is not at all surprising. From the start of his first campaign Trump peddled to white nationalists and far right extremists, his reelection campaign was basically casting doubt and deligitemizeing democratic procedures and institutions, that there's no way he could loose a fair election. Yeah no shit his fanboys believe everything he says.

In his first statement, Trump still speaks of a stolen election.
The Republican party either endorsed, or, at best, ignored the Fascist In Chiefs violent language, or shrugged it off as colourful exaggeration. 
If there's any shred of integrity left in the Republican Party, they should impeach the whole Trump administration even before his term ends in two weeks.

[Csar]

Well said you guys. It's insane what happening.

[rynostar]

I have not replied on this thread. The majority of the time, my voice is not the important one. There are always voices unheard. That said, I recognized long ago that I have a voice of privilege (White, Male, Cisgendered, Straight, Over-educated, Financially stable).

Many of you may remember I completed Grad School in DC. I feel motivated to share my fond nostalgic memories associated with The Capitol Building.

My first trip to DC, I was formally invited to the Capitol, as part of group, by non-paritzan parliamentarian officials. I toured the building and met said officials in one of the private offices. As a non-American, I felt privileged and humbled.

Days after moving there to start grad school, I sat with 'patriots' (retirees, service members, office workers) on the West Lawn watching the NSO play a concert of American symphonic standards. I personally knew the conductor from working alongside him in Canada. That night, I felt nervously inspired for the mind expanding journey about to commence.

Canada Day 2016, my American friend friend from Indiana and I 'stormed the building' claiming it for the Red Coats / Canadians. By that, I meant we wore bad Canadian maple leaf shirts and secretly drank Crown Royal and Coke in front of the West Entrance. That day, I felt Sportive as I challenged my 'adversary' to 'see' a different point of view.

The night after graduating, me and my sister rode bikes around the building and ended up circling around the east side 'square' for about a half hour with only us and the Capitol Hill Police present. That night, I felt inspired to help others in the future through the support of my family.

Independence Day 2017, started blocks away playing True American with a group of friends. We walked to the south side of the building for the fireworks. I made the arduous decision to move home days prior as my options were evaporating. A friend gave me a hug as I cried. That night, I accepted my shortcomings in sadness.

Outside those experiences, I toured the area with guests, planted the seeds of an intense relationship while exploring institutions around, or walked past the building many times en route to other destinations. I've witnessed peaceful protests, I've watched Wedding photos take place, I've peacefully fallen asleep underneath the trees on the lawn surround the building. I could always tell where I was in the city by looking for the bright white dome reaching to the sky. To me, The Capitol Building symbolizes respect.





















In horror from afar Today, I watched violent anarchy unfold.

[Bosco]

You guys are on the money. Just a completely bizarre and disheartening day in America.

And Rynostar, thanks for sharing your experiences about DC and the sanctity of Capitol Hill. I'm far from any patriot, but I appreciate your respect for my country.



To take things on a little different of a tangent...

Another amazing thing that happened today, was Trump getting suspended by Twitter for a 12 hour period. Imagine being the "leader of the free world" and reprimanded by the most influential media platform in the world.

[MadPooter]

I'm a huge free speech proponent. I've worked for the ACLU, the EFF, and the Reporter's Committee for Freedom of the Press. I've even had the opportunity to represent clients in court where I have advocated on behalf of their First Amendment rights to free expression.

I believe censorship is an abhorrent concept, and I support allowing informed minds come to reasonable decisions after discussion.

And I believe it was absolutely the right decision to silence President Trump.

I have never in my entire life been more disappointed in America than this moment.

[ThePumisher]

Another amazing thing that happened today, was Trump getting suspended by Twitter for a 12 hour period.

12h is nothing, way to short. He goes to bed, sleeps a couple of hours and can go on like nothing happened. And to be honest, social media, espacially twitter, should have reacted weeks, months and maybe years ago. I think they too have blood on their hands. Yes, it's a sad and ashaming day for the States (not the first time in the past months), but acting suprised like no one could have seen that coming 10 weeks ago - i don't know.

[Csar]

What I still can't wrap my head around is the fact of a meager presence of law enforcement on a day like that. The rally was announced, the climate already explosive and they had the certification process taking place. What were they thinking?

[Stefan]

I'm really not the best person to explain this, but why this happened has a lot to do with white priviledge. Threats of violence from the far right/white nationalists are usually underestimated if not downright dismissed in both government and media. Just think about the stark difference of police response between here and the BLM protests.
Any group other than white people would have probalbly been shot on sight if they breached a barrier with so much as a coffee cup in their hands.