Discussions on difficult subjects

[MadPooter]

satur8 - with all due respect, you weren't reading my opinions, you were reading my observations. And I hope you do not dismiss my observations.

I'm literally recounting and reciting discussions and talking points from news media, individual conversations, and posts I've seen on social media. No one proposes any solutions, and no one discusses the issue of race in terms that stray from the narrative that white people are racists, Republicans are racists, and white people and Republicans are the source of racism and oppression in the United States.

So while you may have different observations, I don't know why you're suggesting that my observations are somehow "wrong". I'm not giving you my opinion about racist discussions, I'm simply a fly on the wall.

If you would like to expand on your observations of white people shying away from conversations about racism, by all means.

Here's my opinion, though: The conversations about race are becoming more and more racist, and people are confusing racist discussions with progress.

[Bosco]

Here's my opinion, though: The conversations about race are becoming more and more racist, and people are confusing racist discussions with progress.

I agree with this opinion, but I don't.

I agree that people are confusing racist discussions with the mind of making a social utopia rather than racial injustice. We will not ever, even in our lifetime, lose bias over identity. That won't happen until all humans are one race, one gender, have the same name, equal size, living the same exact lives, day in and day out. If there's one thing I can agree with conservatives, this would be it.

Why I don't agree with your opinion... The constant barrage of discussions about racism is necessary for fixing racial injustice. So is fighting racism with racism (more like shaming) aimed at white people appropriate? I'm not sure there is another way. I know it's not comfortable, it might not always be focused, but its relentlessness will be the only way we're going to come close to fixing it. I consider that progress, no matter how painfully redundant it becomes.


Also, Satur8. We're all there in feeling a bit helpless (or at least I know I am). Rarely am I an optimist, but I think your kid is for the better experiencing this through his influential years. It might not resonate now for him, but his generation who equally were disrupted, will show better response when met with a global crisis.

Keep being the best Dad you can be.

[Wolkenkrabber]

We will not ever, even in our lifetime, lose bias over identity. That won't happen until all humans are one race, one gender, have the same name, equal size, living the same exact lives, day in and day out.

There's a scene in the underrated film Bullworth (1998) where Warren Beatty's off-the-rails Senator says everybody needs to shag each other until there are no more races, just one light brown race that looks the same everywhere.
Admittedly it's 22 years since I've seen it, but I suspect the film makes points that are true today and will be in the future too. (Hot Halle Berry is also in it, so y'know check it out.)
Speaking of fighting racism with racism, Grime artist Wiley (best known for Wearing My Rolex) went on a twitter tirade last night against Jews. Just google: Wiley anti semitism or check his WileyCEO twitter account (still there).
Is he entitled to be bitter about being ripped off by white record company suits? Probably. Is it appropriate for him to target Jews? Maybe not (I'm reeeally not a Hitler fan, just to be clear). But if he had said white people instead of jews would that have been ok? Funnily enough, I think it might have been. But I'm genuinely not sure. Is it ok to conflate white people and jewish people? I have no idea.
I remember when Adam Smith was doing interviews for Trespass Against Us he said his next project was a documentary on Wiley and that he was going to be following him to/around Glastonbury.
I dont think we heard any more about that. I wonder if we ever will.

[Enjoyed]

To all the US based forumites, good luck today this month.

It's kind of crippling to be living here without being to have a say in the outcome of the election, especially in a city that is resoundingly against the current administration where it feels like nothing more can be done. My wife and I have basically stopped talking to a lot of family on the other side of this thing - at this stage, it honestly feels futile and an unnecessary spenditure of much needed mental energy to try and engage with them in a meaningful way. We're both incredibly anxious about the results. I'm scared for my city, for the country... We had another spot on the news last night and they gave out our business' address - it worried me. I thought about the potential Trump supporters, living in this "anarchist" city, seeing a business support the voting process and getting angry and wanting a place to express their anger. There are buildings near us that have all but boarded up in preparation for what the state is already calling an emergency.

And on the other side, there is hope with some of the early numbers. And the turnout. Wow. We're predicting to have more than 90% of registered voters turn in their ballots here in Portland. That's wild. I don't think I've ever heard of numbers about 60 in the UK elections. So that's fucking great. I'm super proud of my city. My friends who dropped off their ballots early - followed up to see it was received. And I'm hopeful that enough likeminded people across the country will also get out there and use their voice.

So. As we spend the day giving out little finger puppets to people, and avoiding the news as best we can, I wanted to send love & hope & support to anyone else feeling the weight of the upcoming results. Godspeed.

[Stefan]

I do so much hope that this fucking fascist is voted out of office and that we don't have to pay attention to his antics anymore. I hope that the result of a Biden win is clear enough that there won't even be the question of it being challenged in the courts. I hope that everybody can vote without trouble and stays safe.

[Csar]

... seeing a business support the voting process and getting angry and wanting a place to express their anger. There are buildings near us that have all but boarded up in preparation for what the state is already calling an emergency.

Would anyone of you have thought 3 years ago that in 2020 people would feel the need to barricade up their shops and stuff just because of a presidential election? How far have we come? This is all insane. Hopefully this nightmare ends tonight. It needs to. Hope and love to all of you!

[Stefan]

I don't have any hope for this nightmare ending tonight, but if Trump and the party that enabled him loose power in the White House and the Senate, this might be the start of a long and difficult process to change democracy in the US for the better.

[satur8]

I live in a nation half full with ignorant, hateful fuckers.

It's unbelievable, and yet, I'm not surprised.

[Wolkenkrabber]

Trump crying "fraud" before all the votes have been counted. If he wins, will he continue to do so? 🤔

Meanwhile 48% of Latinos in Florida voted for this guy, the racist guy. Because they fear Biden will inflict hard socialism on them. 🤔🤔

[satur8]

Not sure which is worse: that my countrymen are so conditioned to fear democratic socialism, or that they believe Biden will implement socialist policies at all.

Meanwhile...the socialist policies and practices already in place in this country have been keeping us afloat as people counite getting sick and becoming increasingly underemployed from the pandemic we are not taking seriously.

[Csar]

Not sure which is worse: that my countrymen are so conditioned to fear democratic socialism, or that they believe Biden will implement socialist policies at all.

Meanwhile...the socialist policies and practices already in place in this country have been keeping us afloat as people counite getting sick and becoming increasingly underemployed from the pandemic we are not taking seriously.

Ask one of them how car insurance works. Or any insurance for that matter.


The world's gone crazy. I can smell the rise of authoritarianism and it fucking stinks.

[Wolkenkrabber]

The world's gone crazy. I can smell the rise of authoritarianism and it fucking stinks.

I...I think I can smell Biden victory. Trump demanding a re-count in Wisconsin where he has lost by 20k and filing a suit for vote counting to be *stopped* in Michigan, smells/sounds like desperation.

A Biden/Democrat victory would be good news for those of us concerned about the Good Friday Accord. Really good news.

[Csar]

When I woke up this morning and checked the news, I was so pissed at how close it turned out. Then I stopped checking for today altogether and probably will continue doing so for a while. I am so so mad that so many people fall for one of the greatest liars in decades. Not even 230k dead people could convince them otherwise. It's terrifying.

[Explud]

Probably I could have discussed here the presidential elections in Russia 2.5 years ago, but who am I.. And who cares.. Yep..

[Enjoyed]

Yep. Our local elections were also won by incumbents and candidates running on similar 'change is scary!' campaigns. I went to bed last night after avoiding all news I could, trying to sleep through terrible nightmares of the future of this country, woke up crying and feeling truly without hope.

I can't even get mad at those idiots in their cowardly states. I know no-one in that part of the country. The people I know that voted for Trump did so in California and can go fuck themselves, but their stupidity didn't cost us anything. Who can I even direct my anger at? Who could I have convinced that they're vote was going to end up working against them?

And the write ins... The percentages don't add to 100 in most states - which means people took it upon themselves to take the idiotic stance of no-choice-is-better-than-a-bad-choice. These literal idiots don't realise that any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. I have no more words. Hopelessness is at that remains at the moment.

[Enjoyed]

Probably I could have discussed here the presidential elections in Russia 2.5 years ago, but who am I.. And who cares.. Yep..

I'm sorry it feels like that Explud. This is of course by no means limited to the states. There feels like fewer and fewer safe places to be in the world. People just don't want to care about things outside their immediate bubble. And ultimately it's going to all come crashing down.

[Explud]

I'm sorry it feels like that Explud. This is of course by no means limited to the states. There feels like fewer and fewer safe places to be in the world. People just don't want to care about things outside their immediate bubble. And ultimately it's going to all come crashing down.

This is not the point. And the fact is that from everywhere it looks like only one country in the World is more important than all the others. ONE COUNTRY takes a lot of space here, for some discussions for what's going on there and nobody cares what happens at the rest of the world.

I don't like it. No geography. Love is all.
This place is international and not about politics.

[Wolkenkrabber]

Probably I could have discussed here the presidential elections in Russia 2.5 years ago, but who am I.. And who cares.. Yep..

Well presumably freedom of speech exists on the forum. So you could have brought it up. If people start discussions on something and others reply then... it's a discussion. If no one replies, then the subject or the thread goes dead, right?

If you had brought up discussion of the 21 journalists said to have been murdered since Putin came to power in 2000, I for one, would have been intrigued to hear your take on that and also on democracy in Russia.

[Csar]

Probably I could have discussed here the presidential elections in Russia 2.5 years ago, but who am I.. And who cares.. Yep..

Hey Explud. I would care a lot and be happy if you could share some of your thoughts on that, too.
The only reason why we're talking about the US right now is that we have lots of US forumites and currently a mad king with nuclear missiles at his disposal who put the whole world in a frenzy.

What I would really like to know about developments in your country: How do you feel about the most recent effort by your president to change the constitution to become re-electable beyond the current term limit?

Peace and love!

[neorev]

I wanna see Trump do the perp walk out of the White House when he loses