What's this do? Get Up On It Like This

Starsky Carr

Started by YodasDad, Mar 15, 2020, 12:12

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I can't believe these wankers are trying to claim copyright on a signal sweep! I hope Joe Walsh sure the Chemical Brothers for copyright infringement of his music.


Hi there. It would be advisable to not jump the shark here and apply some degree of benefit of doubt.

This reddit post here explains how Youtube functions:

https://www.reddit.com/user/splitradix/

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The problem with this Youtube video is that the creator of the video, while I am sure his intent is genuine, maybe doesn't understand how the copyright claim is working in this situation.
The Chemical Brothers (aka Tom and Ed) are not the people making the copyright claim.

Allow me to try to explain.

He says in the video (at 2:29): "Literally in five minutes I had a claim from The Chemical Brothers for the clip I just uploaded". He didn't get a claim from Tim and Ed within five minutes. 300 hours of video are uploaded to Youtube a minute (insert a comedy sketch here with The Chemical Brothers spending 100% of their lives searching new Youtube video uploads for their music to copyright claim).

Here's the deal: Mr. Carr (the video uploader) uploaded a fat Behringer Moog filter sweep which got matched by an algorithm to a piece of music that The Chemical Brothers made for a film called Hanna. However, as is the case with most film music I would assume, The Chemical Brothers do not own the publishing rights for this music. It's not theirs to copyright claim, and it wasn't them that copyright claimed it, hence unfortunately Mr. Carr above is annoyed at the wrong people.

The copyright owner is (as per the Mr. Carr's video): "SME merlin audiosalad acting on behalf of Back Lot Music".

Now, pay attention as this gets a tad complicated. SME just stands for small to medium enterprise so ignore that bit. Merlin music is a "digital rights agency for independent record labels" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_Network http://www.merlinnetwork.org/ So, what Merlin Music basically does is gets hired by people who own the copyright of the music to go through Youtube and try to monetise (and / or take down) everything that the copyright owner owns. Google Merlin Music + Youtube and have a read.

Back Lot Music are the people who own the rights to the music, and that's who Merlin are working for. If you go to the Soundcloud page of Back Lot Music (https://soundcloud.com/backlotmusic) you can see apart from doing the music for Hanna (where they hired The Chemical Brothers), they also organised some of the music for such hits as "Fast and the Furious: Hobbs and Shaw", "The Mummy", "Warcraft The Movie" and maybe others, I don't feel like scrolling down that much more.

So, to end this: The Chemical Brothers did not copyright claim this. They are not the guys saying "that's my song". Neither did Back Lot Audio, the copyright owners (although they've paid people to do that on their behalf). It was an algorithm Merlin music had paid for which is good at catching tunes they want to catch a lot of the time, but sometimes is not, as is the case here.

Youtube copyright claiming of songs is quite complicated and doesn't work a lot of the time, it usually warrants a bit of digging rather than just assuming that The Chemical Brothers or Phil Collins personally decided that you ripped them off. :)

The Chems are not known for things like that. So don't jump the gun and pre-judge something based on a social network rant who's uploader obviously doesn't know the inner workings of YT.
"You cannot eat money, oh no. You cannot eat money, oh no. When the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no."

Arsey Scouser moans about YT algorithms and blames the Chems.

Quote from: YodasDad on Mar 15, 2020, 12:12

Starsky Carr thinks CB are greedy MFs but is too polite to say so

Well he acknowledges the real problem in one of the comments/replies beneath the video:

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I'm not blaming them...  it the system is clearly not working.

That's probably the truth. He's right to flag it up, but I suspect the Chems know F**k-All about it.

Quote from: YodasDad on Mar 15, 2020, 12:12

I hope Joe Walsh sure the Chemical Brothers for copyright infringement of his music.
For which track?

ps: I started typing this before Csar posted above.
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

Besides, I'd say you cannot claim copyright for synth patches or a sound anybody could come up with because these machines are designed for just that. I'm pretty sure the musical context would be needed to come to a legal verdict. Take the latest Led Zeppelin/ Spirit legal battle for example.

I just wished people these days would do some more research before they go knee-jerkingly off on some social platform to vent their mind - especially in that foul-mouthed manner.
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2020, 13:38 by Csar
"You cannot eat money, oh no. You cannot eat money, oh no. When the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no."

Quote from: Csar on Mar 15, 2020, 13:28

Besides, I'd say you cannot claim copyright for synth patches or a sound anybody could come up with because these machines are designed for just that.

To be fair to Mr Carr, that's his whole point, but it's happening (via bot) anyway.
His videos get de-monitised automatically and then he has to fight the system...
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

Quote from: Wolkenkrabber on Mar 15, 2020, 13:32

To be fair to Mr Carr, that's his whole point, but it's happening (via bot) anyway.
His videos get de-monitised automatically and then he has to fight the system...
Ah, I see! Seems like I'm being a bad example myself by showing the same lack of diligence I demanded above :). But the title itself is very clickbaity and the OP's tone wasn't helping, too :) .
He should have addressed the true culprit in his video name but instead overstated the Chems. I don't like that (not just because of the Bros, rather in general). A missed opportunity since I believe this is indeed a topic worth adressing - directed at the right people.
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2020, 13:50 by Csar
"You cannot eat money, oh no. You cannot eat money, oh no. When the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no."

Anyone care about an update? I know; there are more important things going on. This might take your mind off "that" for two minutes.

Looks like Errol replied to the video in the OP using The Chems official YouTube ID. He says:
Quote
The Chemical Brothers
Starsky,
Hello from The Chemical Brothers HQ.   Have also tried contacting you directly to say that a claim such as this is obviously ridiculous and is something the band would never endorse.  The people to contact are the soundtrack label of Universal, Black Lot Music who are responsible for this (the song they are referencing is from the Hanna soundtrack).  As you point out, they are using some poorly executed automation that has no involvement of any kind from the band.  We have of course also requested it be addressed right away.   - EK

And Starsky Carr has now done a new video where he is practically falling over himself to praise the Chems.


ps Starsky also added this in the description of the first video
Quote

***UPDATE #1: THIS ALREADY HAS ANOTHER COPYRIGHT CLAIM AGAINST IT*** ... now resolved :)
***UPDATE #2: THE CLAIM WAS SWIFTLY REMOVED BY THE CHEMICAL BROTHERS HQ..  SO THANKS TO THEM FOR GETTING INVOLVED ... I NEITHER EXPECTED OR INTENDED FOR ANYONE TO INTERVENE***

Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

this feels so dirty and small. I'm happy Errol came in and cleaned the air.

I think I made mention before in a previous "samples" thread that I'm not a fan of the mass groupings of used samples or interpolated music that Chemical Brothers have used in their music. Websites like "Whosampled.com" (while interesting and educational) are like a ticking time bomb till record companies/labels redefine and desperately impose their copyright laws. And since most of these samples are being gathered mainly from the human ear and through conversation, we are doing all the grunt work for this potential problem, free.

Probably a bit batty on my part. But here we are, having computer algorithms imposing copyright protection over a simple ~3 second sound.

Ha, I was just going to post about it but you beat me to it, Wolkenkrabber :)
Such a nice move from Errol and the guys to reach out to him. This is who they are, just nice peeps.

By the way, I'm really curious as to how these copyright claims work and who as to prove to whom what is a legit claim. Do companies that program and execute these screening algorithms just get their way when they think they might have detected IP violations?`Do they have to prove it? How hard is it for content creators like this Starsky guy to reject such a claim?

PS. Can anyone tell me what dialect Starksy has? Is it one from some of the northern UK regions?
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2020, 13:44 by Csar
"You cannot eat money, oh no. You cannot eat money, oh no. When the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no."

Quote from: Csar on Mar 22, 2020, 13:15

By the way, I'm really curious as to how these copyright claims work and who as to prove to whom what is a legit claim. Do companies that program and execute these screening algorithms just get their way when they think they might have detected IP violations?`Do they have to prove it? How hard is it for content creators like this Starsky guy to reject such a claim?

I think Mr Carr discusses this in some of his replies under the first video. I can't remember all the details but there seems to be a way to respond which usually gets the claims dropped. Maybe have a look through the YT comments?

Quote from: Csar on Mar 22, 2020, 13:15

PS. Can anyone tell me what dialect Starksy has? Is it one from some of the northern UK regions?

Yes. In my first post on this thread I said "Arsey Scouser moans about YT algorithms and blames the Chems".
Arsey meaning "uppity", Scouser meaning "Liverpudlian" - from Liverpool.
My comment was a bit cheeky because as a Manchester Utd fan, we like to give Liverpool fans a hard time (although we have no beef with Everton fans who are also from Liverpool, and he could be an Evertonian). Ahh, football rivalry.
Scouse is the name of a sort of stew synonomous with Liverpool, so people call Liverpudlians "Scousers" as an informal term. They're often quite proud of it.  He basically has the same accent as the Beatles. Or pretty close.
Sometimes posh Scousers (ha!) say they're from Merseyide. Especially if they're from just outside Liverpool. The Mersey is a famous local river (see Ferry Cross The Mersey by Frankie Goes To Hollywood, originally by Gerry & The Pacemakers).

Ps Paul McCartney is said to be an Everton fan (phew!), I'm not sure about the other Beatles.
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

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