Samples & Trainspotting

[Wolkenkrabber]

Following on from my post #75, another track that samples Bulgarian choral vox has emerged, brand new for 2023.

Argy & Goom Gum - Pantheon

It could do with a remix to toughen up the production for my personal taste, but I really like how they've used the vox.

I notice that Le Mystere des Voix Bulgares -who seem to be a long running choir (presumably with members who change over time) did a full KEXP session in 2017.

[hubie]

Incidentally the Chems remix of Voodoo People also samples the track below at 2:12. I guess Boogie Down Productions have been a long time Chemical favourite, as their JIMMY would hugely influence CHEMICAL (writing credit given) many years later.

Just picking up on your comment about CHEMICAL, I vaguely recall an early (live?) version that used samples of "The C, the H..." and so on, from the beginning of It Gets No Rougher by LL Cool J...

Obviously the samples were rearranged in much the same way as those on Super Sharp Shooter by DJ Zinc. But I assume the samples were dropped for the official release (because LL Cool J said no perhaps?) and Tom and Ed used their own vocal artist instead?

[Wolkenkrabber]

I like these sort of videos. This one is broken into sections. There's a Daft Punk Section, a Vampire Weekend/Radiohead section, a Moby section - where he samples strings and plays them backwards (hmm, that sounds like a familiar theme at the moment). Oh and there's a Beatles section. Yes the fab four are kinda 'accused' of sampling Spanish guitar (via melotron) at the start of one of their own songs. And Strawberry Fields gets a mention too! I would probably skip over the advertising section at 4:49 though.

After the Melotron and before the Akai sampler, there was the Fairlight CMI. Don't be put off by Bruno Mars here!
We get: the original Stravinsky performance of THAT orchestral hit. NWA, Peter Vogel - the inventor of the Fairlight. His copy of the Stravinsky record that he sampled to the Fairlight. Herbie Hancock with David Letterman, Peter Gabriel & Kate Bush, Afrika Bambaataa, Duran Duran, New Order and even The Smiths.

I think Yes's Owner Of A Lonely Heart was the first track I noticed that ORCH sound on, as a child. Whenever I heard it after that, I assumed that the other artists had nicked it from Yes. But No!

EDIT: if you liked that Fairlight video, here's a longer one with more Letterman/Hancock and Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush.

[Ak_30]

I may be mistaken, but I believe I've identified the original break sample used in "Life is Sweet Remix 1".
Specifically, the drum roll at 0:21 in the track bears strong resemblance to that used in "Life is Sweet Remix 1".

[Wolkenkrabber]

Egyptian Empire - The Horn Track. That is crazy good!

New jungle/D&B take on this for 2023 just uploaded to YT this weekend.
Sounds like they sampled Egyptian Empire directly (rather than Rattling Ghosts), as you can hear the sample from Human League's Love Action which is also in the EE track.

LMAJOR - Hornz

[Wolkenkrabber]

This thread's been dormant for 11 months? I must be slipping...

Looking back in the Archive, I haven't yet spotted any discussion of "As Heard On Radio Soulwax Pt2", although I have noticed mention of "Here Come The Drums" dating back to 2003. Crumbs! When did that title first get bandied around??

Anyway when I first threw the above mentioned 2ManyDJs mix CD on my stereo back in 2002/03, I remember hearing what was surely a snippet of Out Of Control on there. I checked the CD box only to find that the track listing mentioned no such thing.

Jump to 9:37 in the video below. (The track before it has been muted, I think because it contains an unauthorsed sample of Prince's Kiss. The un-muted version of the video is available on Vimeo)

Instead, the tracklist seemed to mention "The O Medley" by Bobby O. Hmm, wasn't he the guy who produced the Pet Shop Boys back in their early days?
Yes he was! His early recording of West End Girls with PSB was released as a flop single before Neil & Chris got a new record deal and re-recorded their music.

All the PSB/Bobby O stuff can be found on a YT video

Spoiler

And if you want to hear more about that story, there's a BBC documentary due to be broadcast tonight at 22:30 UK time, i.e now (for the second time this week) called Pet Shop Boys: Then and Now. Or view it on iPlayer here. VPNs may be required.

Anyway that "O Medley" is of course, a medley of Bobby O's tracks. So the bit that sounds like OOC is a specific track called She Has A Way.

And of course this track pre-dates OOC. So I think it's safe to say that the Chems 'sampled' this track. In fact I reckon WhoSampled used to have this listed as a direct sample, but at the moment it doesn't have it listed as any kind of sample, even though to my mind, that OOC riff is clearly an "interpolation" or recreation of the Bobby O riff.

Whilst thinking about this (and thinking about Don't Fight Control following recent forum discussion), I found myself listening to Enjoyed (The B-side rather than the forum member). Sometimes when Enjoyed pops up randomly on my music player, I think, "Oh, it's the Biff & Memphis remix of Touched By The Hand of God",

Spoiler

"

and then a few seconds later, I realise: "oh no it isn't."

Spoiler

I guess this intro is quite similar to Music Response, but I think it's even more similar to the New Order track. Not quite a direct sample but surely an influence? Otherwise it wouldn't keep fooling me...would it?

And finally...

On the subject of the New Order influence, you know those scrambled bleeps we get at the end of the main body of a Chems gig, like in BenJ's video here around 0:09?

I used to think this was inspired by anther source, but I now reckon it sounds incredibly similar to the noises in this New Order track at 3:57. Thoughts anyone?

[Enjoyed]

I have 'She Has a Way' in my mp3 collection with the comments reading "Chemical Brothers Samples (Out of Control)" and a 'Date Added' of 4/6/13 -  so I'm definitely inclined to say that this was somewhat known. By who? Not sure. But I certainly agree that the OOC riff seems quite likely influenced by it.

Also, man, what a fucking good song to be named after. Go me!

[Explud]

https://www.whosampled.com/sample/515459/The-Chemical-Brothers-Saturate-Dave-Vanian-Morgan-Fisher-Night-Touch/



Has this been a well-known for a long time? I'm shocked. I always thought it was played/recorded on synths by T&E themselves and processed through some filters.

[Wolkenkrabber]

https://www.whosampled.com/sample/515459/The-Chemical-Brothers-Saturate-Dave-Vanian-Morgan-Fisher-Night-Touch/



Has this been a well-known for a long time? I'm shocked. I always thought it was played/recorded on synths by T&E themselves and processed through some filters.

Holy smokes! I didn't know that one.
That's Dave Vanian, lead singer of punk band The Damned.

I wouldn't have imagined anything by The Damned or by one of their members appearing as an electronic music sample.
The Damned's track "Life Goes On" was 'sampled' in Killing Joke's "Eighties", which in turn was 'sampled' in Nirvana's Come As You Are. That sort of Rock connection is more the sort of thing I would expect from him/them.

It's a good spot. 

[Bosco]

Very cool.

In good company when Madlib samples the same source.

[Wolkenkrabber]

Chicane v Calvin Harris. Grab the popcorn!

Chicane accuses Calvin Harris of nicking Offshore.
Calvin Harris says nope and then accuses Chicane's Offshore of sampling Tangerine Dream.

DJ Mag article

I bought that Chicane album back in the day and I played it a lot. I've never bought any Calvin Harris stuff. So when I first saw Chicane's insta video I was immediately on his side.
Then I watched Harris' reply video, and (swearing aside) I found myself leaning towards Harris' argument.

Click to play

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Then I watched the video below and I totally threw Chicane's argument in the bin. I'd be curious to see what would happen if Chicane decided to proceed.
Oh and there are comments from lots of recognisable music names under/beside both insta videos. Pick your fighter!

If you could sue for "similar vibe" then Chicane might have a case...

EDIT. May as well plonk the Tangerine Dream track here too.

EDIT2. Here's the track that Calvin actually did sample (no I dont have proof of this):

[Enjoyed]

Damn. I feel like I could record a whole reaction video about this.

Firstly, I do ultimately agree that the idea that Calvin 'stole' this from Chicane is twaddle. The breakdown video did a decent job of explaining why that's the case - most effectively when he talked about the harmony of the melody changing, and that not being something you can manipulate from an original sample (though AI and in depth audio manipulation can get you closer than it used to - but does beg the question; why bother when you could just re-record the chords with a different synth.) So yeah, same vibe, similar sounding synth, but so what. The track you suggested as the sample seems much closer IMHO!

My biggest issues, though, are two fold.

1.
Calvin Harris' video seemed to suggest he has no idea how to make music. Granted, Chicane had pre-set up the two tracks to be able to compare them more obviously... but you would hope that Calvin would be able to figure that out as an incredibly successful producer. So, he either deliberately left them as different from each other as they could be (sort of undermining and slightly obfuscating his point) or, worse, he actually doesn't know what he's doing - making a case for the chance of him using a sample slightly higher.
He asked himself at one point "is this the same tempo?", proceeded to play back the Chicane track with the click on, and right as the track audibly drifted away in tempo, confidently said "no, it's at the same tempo".
So again. Deliberately being obtuse? Or genuinely clueless? Both don't give me much confidence in his position.

2.
The guy in the 15 minute long video, self professed 'muso' and professional musician who has spent 10 of the last 18 years of his time in the music business, within the world of dance music... THINKS THAT THE BAND IS CALLED INSOMNIA AND THAT THE SONG IS CALLED FAITHLESS. I could have let a simple voiceover mistake go (though I would have personally just re-recorded the bit I fucked up) but it became clear through the rest of the video, that he didn't think he had to re-record the audio because he genuinely thinks that the song is called Faithless.
His other video, specifically about Insomnia, does have it the right way round...  So did he forget in between? I'm honestly most shocked about that. And in an effort to pre-defend myself about a poor guy making an honest mistake - this isn't some obscure club track from the 90s that never made it to the populous, this is one of the most recognizable 'dance' tunes, ever. I don't think a single professional musician even on the outskirts of the dance world, would get those two mixed up.

Am I being a dick? Maybe. I'm tired. Sorry.

Anywho. Your "similar vibe" comment stands. At this point, you could probably find a way to argue both for and against almost any song being somehow related to or referencing another (exaggerating for effect... but it would be an interesting exercise!) 

[Explud]

Deliberately being obtuse?

Of course, he could just show the project in the DAW and how he made this chords, that's it.

[Wolkenkrabber]

My biggest issues, though, are two fold.

1.
Calvin Harris' video seemed to suggest he has no idea how to make music. Granted, Chicane had pre-set up the two tracks to be able to compare them more obviously... but you would hope that Calvin would be able to figure that out as an incredibly successful producer. So, he either deliberately left them as different from each other as they could be (sort of undermining and slightly obfuscating his point) or, worse, he actually doesn't know what he's doing - making a case for the chance of him using a sample slightly higher.
He asked himself at one point "is this the same tempo?", proceeded to play back the Chicane track with the click on, and right as the track audibly drifted away in tempo, confidently said "no, it's at the same tempo".
So again. Deliberately being obtuse? Or genuinely clueless? Both don't give me much confidence in his position.

Chicane made them as similar as possible so Calvin did the opposite.

I've seen sugestions that Harris uses ghost producers. Does he?...
I suppose he might now, but:
I first became aware of C.H. when "Acceptable In The 80s" came out. I thought he was simply an artist. I didn't know he was primarily a DJ until he started doing festivals. It's not as though he was a "big personality" DJ who then decided to make records. He doesn't have that Guetta or DJ Khaled celebrity vibe about him. Why would a record company have put ghost producers behind an obscure DJ from Arbroath? So he must know how to make music...right?

Re: Calvin being obtuse, I tend to agree with @Explud here. Harris's whole video has a defensive/aggressive vibe about it. Not only does he call Chicane a "stupid bastard", at one point he also calls him a cunt! Then in his own Insta comments he writes "cheers Nick chicane all the best to you pal" and I honestly dont know if he's being sarcastic or showing a bit of respect to a good artist (with a bad point).
If you haven't read the insta comments on both videos from other producers & DJs then I urge you to do so. TSHA hit like on the Chicane vid (!)

2.
The guy in the 15 minute long video, self professed 'muso' and professional musician who has spent 10 of the last 18 years of his time in the music business, within the world of dance music... THINKS THAT THE BAND IS CALLED INSOMNIA AND THAT THE SONG IS CALLED FAITHLESS. I could have let a simple voiceover mistake go (though I would have personally just re-recorded the bit I fucked up) but it became clear through the rest of the video, that he didn't think he had to re-record the audio because he genuinely thinks that the song is called Faithless.
His other video, specifically about Insomnia, does have it the right way round...  So did he forget in between? I'm honestly most shocked about that. And in an effort to pre-defend myself about a poor guy making an honest mistake - this isn't some obscure club track from the 90s that never made it to the populous, this is one of the most recognizable 'dance' tunes, ever. I don't think a single professional musician even on the outskirts of the dance world, would get those two mixed up.

Wow what a rant! Fantastic! He does seem to know enough about music making to put together this video though, right?
He mentions that sleepy song by Faithful(!) several times in the video. He seems to get it right at 9:57. You could also argue he gets it right at 8:53 and 8:57.
When I was about five, my fave Beatles song was Paperback Writer (much to my mother's annoyance cos it was 'noisy'). But I didnt know what a paperback was. I called it Paperbag Writer. To this day I sometimes still make that error. I learned it wrong and it's still in my brain somewhere.

To take another example, there's a track in our "Muscologist's" video: Gat Decor's Passion*. I remember Pete Tong playing that on white label or acetate before anyone else. I wasn't sure which word was the artist and which was the title. Later versions had "passion" whispered over the top, but not back then. It took me a while to get that one right in my head.
I realise that the Faithless track is super famous, as you state. But then so is the Beatles track. Doesnt stop me from f**king it up though! So I'm prepared to believe that Mr Musicologist got it wrong on first release and has struggled to "unlearn" his mistake since then. But of course it's possible that he's not the professional he claims to be, and that he's overstating his credentals in order to promote himself (imagine!).

Am I being a dick? Maybe. I'm tired. Sorry.

Hey, gotta admire the effort you put into the post. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself on this thread, so it's good to get a reaction. And if we were going to get anyone here to react, why not the former music teacher and professional (ish) musician who knows a thing or two about making tracks and using (cheeky?) samples in them?

Anywho. Your "similar vibe" comment stands.

Thanks, I kinda nicked that from Mr Musicologist.
I do think it's fair to say that one track is reminsicent of the other, but I also think Chicane is being disingenuous. He knows what he's doing when he changes the pitch and uses a small section. And fair play to Calvin for bringing up the Tangerine Dream stuff. Maybe Chicane would like Calvin to pay Tangerine Dream for uh "sampling" them via the Chicane track?
I hope Nick Chicane has enjoyed his 48 hours of 'fame'. It's been a while. I say that as someone who nonetheless digs Chicane's music more than Calvin's.


*Fun fact: Gat Decor is a -sort of- anagram of Tag Records a former dance music record shop in London, the owners of which created "Passion".

EDIT

Of course, he could just show the project in the DAW and how he made this chords, that's it.

Spoiler

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