What's this do? No Geography

Funk D'Void "I’m an asshole". Should we care?

Started by Wolkenkrabber, Jul 27, 2017, 17:52

Previous topic - Next topic
Following this tweet from Mixmag's DJ of the year (2016)
https://twitter.com/blackmadonnachi/status/890256391473987584
things have kicked off in internet/twitter land.
The situation seemingly explained in This Article

I must admit I have never heard of The Proud Boys prior to today. It does appear to be a bit of a far right organisation with a hint of "white men are best" about it. I'm struggling to take the name seriously though. Are they friends with Richard Spencer and his Pepe the frog badges?

I guess this doesn't ingratiate Mr D'Void with the PLUR vibe that tends to emanate from the house/dance music scene. Maybe we shouldn't give a damn and just enjoy his DJ sets and music. Or maybe he needs to be called out on it so as not to "normalise" intolerant attitudes. Is he right when he says "these witch hunts to shame people [in order for the accusers] to appear good are more sinister"?

Then there was the Ten Walls controversy in 2015 when he got dropped by lots of festivals. I actually saw him live at a festival on the weekend that the story broke, though I didn't know about it til the following Monday. He was pretty good and part of me was glad that I caught him before the story came out. I'm pretty sure Mr Ed Simons tweeted that cancelling Ten Walls from a UK festival (I forget which one) was probably for the best. Was Ten Walls entitled to express his opinions on his private Facebook page without being witch hunted and boycotted?

Then there's the Afrika Bambataa stuff which if true, is really nasty. Should I throw out my copy of Planet Rock? I love that track and I don't really want to!

It's easy to boycott people you don't care for such as Lost Prophets or Gary Glitter but what if you like their music?

Maybe we draw the line at criminal conviction. But since his death, Michael Jackson's family said they didn't know if he knew where to draw the line with kids (sorry I can't find the exact quote). Do we assume he was innocent because he was never found guilty? If he were still alive, how many people would trust him as a babysitter?
And then there's Pete Townsend...

Well Ok, i know there's a difference between subscribing to a funny little right wing group and being guilty of paedophilia, but y'know I'm not sure it's always easy to know where to draw the line.
Who doesn't like to read an interview with their favourite artists? If they are complete assholes can you completely separate that artist's work from their opinions and/or actions?
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.


I really don't like Pogo as a person but I will never stop listening to his music.

Also, I actually listen to Lost Prophets now and then, with my buddy. We feel guilty but we really like the tracks and they remind us of school. It's probably the only music I could talk about in the 'embarrassing mp3' thread...
dancesoitallkeepsspinning

This is an interesting topic you've come up with, Skyscraper. And a tricky one, too, where one's answers can't be simply yes or no.

In this day and age, with so called social media etc., it appears it has become rather normal to generate outcries, shit storms and boycotts. Therefore, it's become very important to me to do at least a little reseach before forming an opinion and judging rather than just blindly chiming in on those kinds of sensational news. So it's always good to go check what it is actually about.

And I've got to be honest. What I've seen so far about this proud boys thing (didn't know them before you pointed to that issue) does not resonate with my (political/ personal) views and values at all! Frankly, as a person who subscribes to humaneness, I simply find the way they present themselves both pretty repellent and laughable. Would I be a die-hard fan of Funk D'Void's, I'd be really disappointed in him, that's for sure. Would that be enough for me, though, to boycott his music? Hm, that's pretty tough to answer.
Like you hinted, it's always easier to shun and boycott something/ somebody or to keep ignoring sb./sth. if you're not (too) emotionally invested and when you wouldn't have to face remorse or some sort of (cognitive) dissonance. But what happens when that's the case? I don't want to ponder on the idea what I would feel if one of the Chems would out himself in such a way. Could I enjoy their music the same way I did before, with all the emotions attached? I believe, it would at least tarnish the excitement I would have about them. Of course, the music itself stands on its own, lives and breathes an own life. In a totally objective world, I would argue, you could actually separate the product from an artist, judging it only on its own merits. But being human with emotions makes it all the more harder to do. The thing is, becoming a fan of an artist also creates a type of relationship, eventually forming (positive) expectations and assumptions towards him/her. When these expectations turn out to be untrue and you learn that you were wrong about your favorite artist all along, it can be really painful do deal with that cognitive dissonance. What should I do? Ignore? Justify? Qualify? Abdandon?
Damn, this would be a fantastic topic for a thesis!

So, in case of D'Void, would I stop listening to his music (to be honest, Diabla is the only track I really know)? Maybe not. I might not like him personally, given his association with that club and some of his twitter posts. And yet, I also dislike personal naming and shaming campaigns or this modern social media warfare against people with just different opinions when it's not necessarily warranted. Being an extreme conservative alone does not in my opinion, let alone getting dropped from festivals solely on this premise. People can decide for themselves whether they want to attend the show or not.
For me, though, a red line would be crossed, when it comes to open racism, hate speech (or severe criminal actions) etc., like in the case of that Ten Walls dude. If something is promoted that goes against the spirit of a festival, it seems rational for organizers to decide to uninvite such an artist, in my opinion.

Well, having said all that, my own conclusion is that, no, I would not necessarily want to throw out any music of artists I basically love and which turn out totally different to what I expected them to be. However, it could certainly become some sort of tainted love, I guess.
Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017, 20:57 by Csar
"You cannot eat money, oh no. You cannot eat money, oh no. When the last tree has fallen and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no."

Quote from: Enjoyed on Jul 28, 2017, 14:02

I really don't like Pogo as a person but I will never stop listening to his music.
This Pogo or this Pogo?

Quote from: Enjoyed on Jul 28, 2017, 14:02
Also, I actually listen to Lost Prophets now and then, with my buddy. We feel guilty but we really like the tracks and they remind us of school. It's probably the only music I could talk about in the 'embarrassing mp3' thread...

Heh, I didn't even see your tiny font writing when I first read your reply. My jaw dropped briefly when I did see it. But I guess if someone in Led Zep or New Order was found guilty of the same thing I would probably still listen to their music - even if I didn't shout about it.

Of course rock bands have got away with being assholes for a long time (not that I'm excusing LostProphets). I guess the bad boy thing is deemed more acceptable in rock. GnR's lyrics in songs such as One In A Million got them noticed but seemed to just add to their bad boy reputation. Ted Nugent has always been right wing and a bit of an asshole (but I can't take him seriously. Still love Scream Dream!) Jimmy Page claimed to worship the devil (perhaps because he wanted to emulate the Robert Johnson devil legend). And the Stones pissed in front of the police whilst swearing at them (allegedly) and named an album "Their Satanic Majesties Request" (and of course a song, Sympathy for the Devil). I wonder how the dance world would react if Daft Punk or T&E did most of this stuff. (mind you the Chems live visuals for the Reel/Sympathy depicting the devil in stained glass windows sometimes jar with the former Irish Catholic in me. A bit precious of me, I know).

Quote from: Csar on Jul 28, 2017, 20:44

This is an interesting topic you've come up with, Skyscraper. And a tricky one, too, where one's answers can't be simply yes or no.
And you certainly threw yourself into the answer, Csar. Thanks!

Quote from: Csar on Jul 28, 2017, 20:44

Damn, this would be a fantastic topic for a thesis!
A potentially dangerous one too, depending on who was marking it.

Quote from: Csar on Jul 28, 2017, 20:44

So, in case of D'Void, .... I might not like him personally, given his association with that club and some of his twitter posts. And yet, I also dislike personal naming and shaming campaigns or this modern social media warfare against people with just different opinions...
Around the time I started this thread last Thursday, Funk D'Void had his set cancelled by a Berlin club for that night:
https://twitter.com/residentadvisor/status/890635892590653440

If I had been planning to go to that club to see him, I think I might have been annoyed by the club's cancellation. But yes I suppose the club is entitled to say, "no thanks" (but i wonder if they still have to pay him. He didn't break the law or break his contract. He has been known as right wing for years).

Quote from: Csar on Jul 28, 2017, 20:44

Well, having said all that, my own conclusion is that, no, I would not necessarily want to throw out any music of artists I basically love and which turn out totally different to what I expected them to be. However, it could certainly become some sort of tainted love, I guess.
Tainted love; very good! I'm stealing that for the next time someone catches me listening to Walking With Elephants.
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

The first (annoying, kind of a dick, Australian) Pogo. Sometimes I watch his streams on YouTube to see if he's now cool, but every time... nope. Kind of a dick.

I certainly don't feel completely fine, or even good about listening to LP. What he did was completely horrendous and disgusting and should in no way be condoned by supporting him as a person in any way. But, there are other members of the band, who, as I understand it, weren't in any way culpable through negligence or keeping quite about it (I may be wrong) and don't really deserve to have what was their livelihood and creative output boycotted because of something someone else did. Also, I don't feel like he was doing what he did while writing/recording the songs, though I don't think there's any evidence of that either way.

It's a tricky one as people have said. And definitely an interesting topic of discussion. I guess until it happens with someone I really, really respect as a musician, I wont fully be able to comment on it. It's all very well saying that if Tom or Ed or Rick or Karl did something disgusting that it wouldn't affect my appreciation of their music, but there's a limit. I think it would be very much down to what that incident was, how closely it resonated with my own beliefs and honestly just how I would feel listening to the music after the fact. No one wants to feel guilty or wrong about listening to music they like, and if that started to happen I think whether you wanted to or not, you'd start enjoying them less...
dancesoitallkeepsspinning

I have a problem when people start losing gigs (like Funk just did) for their opinions.

Artists need to be able to have an opinion, a political view, whatever it is, and not have their passion and livelihood destroyed because people disagree with it. When witch hunts like these start happening, when its discovered an artist said or believes something right-wing, not only does it kind of damage or destroy their dream of making the music they want to make (for example, the Ten Walls guy will never make music commercially again, even if his opinion changes), it also (especially in the case of Proud Boys) STRONGLY increases their idea of "fascist liberalism" and adds to the message that white people and western culture are victims of censorship and hatred. They can point to a right-wing artist losing gigs and sales as evidence of "facist liberalism" and double down on their beliefs and defense of their movement. Kicking people out, cancelling gigs.... it's like throwing water on a grease fire. It furthers the divide and makes everyone angrier.

You lose a lot of good music that way too. A Tribe Called Quest wrote a very homophobic song in their Low-End Theory era called "Georgie Porgie", which they released (reworked) as "Show Business".



In this day and age, this news would have killed A Tribe Called Quest, put every member out of their jobs, and Galvanize, Go and the In Glint mix would have sounded very different. And even though their views on homosexuality have changed since then, their careers would have been destroyed before they even had a chance to open their minds. That's not fair at all.

As long as the artist isn't acting on awful ideas or beliefs - like all the abuse examples Skyscraper mentioned - I think arms need to stay open and discussion needs to be fostered about they're saying and believing. And you can crucify me for saying this (I welcome your disagreement!) but right now the Proud Boys are mostly harmless, and if we're lumping Funk in by extension, so is he. A line can be drawn when their organization starts calling for violence or harm, but Proud Boys just seems to be a semi-worrisome feedback loop for white men of that uncertain persuasion (look up their policy on masturbation, if you're in for a laugh). They're not neo-Nazi. I don't think they're right on most levels, but that doesn't mean they need to be shut down, doesn't mean any musicians associated with them deserve to be thrown out onto the street.
Last Edit: Jul 31, 2017, 21:10 by WhiteNoise

Quote from: WhiteNoise on Jul 31, 2017, 21:01

I have a problem when people start losing gigs (like Funk just did) for their opinions.

In a world filled with unlimited social injustices, this one doesn't rank.

I agree, the witch hunts are getting out of control, but I have no problem with snuffing out the voice of people who want to voice their xenophobic, misogynistic, homophobic, and white superiority values. We've come too far, to give credence in something so damaging. Free speech means nothing if you can't convey the basic principles of humanity.
Last Edit: Aug 02, 2017, 01:44 by Bosco

That's very true. My worry is only that censorship will cause those with shitty views to double down on them rather than try seeing things from a better perspective.
Last Edit: Aug 01, 2017, 23:58 by WhiteNoise

Quote from: WhiteNoise on Jul 31, 2017, 21:01

I have a problem when people start losing gigs (like Funk just did) for their opinions.

Artists need to be able to have an opinion, a political view, whatever it is, and not have their passion and livelihood destroyed because people disagree with it.



I disagree. If this man falls in line with the Richard Spencers of the world, then he doesn't deserve the diverse audience most of his gigs would probably bring. He can still have a gig an audience somewhere....like maybe in Alabama.





Oh boy...

https://medium.com/@stevemanimalhershman/death-from-above-1979-the-proud-boys-and-the-alt-right-44885a0dfb62


Quote from:  Jesse Keeler
It's difficult to know where to begin with this letter, so I'll start here: I recently learned that last year I was the subject of an article written by the very controversial and provocative media figure, Gavin McInnes. If that name doesn't ring a bell, it may be for the best. Unfortunately the bells it rings play a sour tune in the key of "Alt-Right."
In his article, Gavin claimed that I was part of his group, the "Proud Boys." This is completely false. I would never join that group. My connection to Gavin however is real, but begs to be clarified. I first met Gavin in 2003 or 2004 as a founding member of Vice Magazine. Vice had started a record label and my band released records with them in the U.S. Through that connection, we became loosely acquainted. Our first interaction was back around 2004 when he called me up to do an interview with our band for his magazine. He offered to either do an interview or "just make some stuff up." The latter seemed more fun/interesting to me at the time and so that's what he did. Back then he was mostly known as the writer of Vice magazines famed, and often not so politically correct fashion section, "Dos and Don'ts". In short, he was a comedian. Through the years we remained friendly and as our lives diverged, we spoke only on occasion, mostly about Dad stuff as we both have kids. After leaving Vice, Gavin had been doing stand-up comedy, making movies and writing books, all seemingly a continuation of the wreckless comedy style he had implemented in the magazine. Over time, I watched many people distance themselves from Gavin both professionally and personally. I always perceived that as people just thinking he was "a little much." In short, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
When he started a video podcast and invited me on as a guest, I obliged. When he invited me to his talk-show and a party on election night last year, regrettably, I attended. Never without a morbid curiosity. Anyone who knows me, or has met me for longer than 5 minutes knows how curious I am. I never thought that my curiosity would lead to this moment, where now it feels like I'm walking through a lake of mud.
Soon after the election, I began noticing that Gavin was promoting violence and a form of radical politics that I absolutely do not agree with. I have always been anti-war and anti-violence. That is my baseline position. As far as immigration and nationalism: I am the child of an Indian mother and a Canadian father. I was raised in Canada by my immigrant-Indian family who struggled to make it in a new country. I watched my highly educated Indian grandfather deliver the newspaper his whole life, instead of working in his proper field. My skin tone may not tell this story, but it's a fact. Growing up I didn't identify as either race, as choosing one group seemed to somehow betray the other. I'm sure this is the plight of many mixed-race people.
So here I am, again caught between two things. Reality and fiction. The reality is that I am not "Alt-Right," nor a White Supremacist. The facts are I am a mixed race father of two and a musician. I am so sorry for putting my family, friends and fans in this position. I never wanted to talk about politics, I just wanted to make music and leave that stuff alone. Unfortunately, my actions have brought me here, and I am deeply heartbroken about it. To a fault it seems that I give people the benefit of the doubt, and I hope that you will give me the same in return.
Jesse F. Keeler

I believe Jesse, but he can't be that ignorant. He might not be full on All-Right, but It seems he's definitely entertaining some of the bull shit the Proud Boys spew.

Really poor awareness on his part. Just shows how toxic association can be.
Last Edit: Oct 28, 2017, 02:09 by Bosco

Just an FYI. Jackmaster (not Richie Hawtin, but the Scottish one) is the latest in line for the shame game. And possibly with good reason.

The original story was that he smashed up some equipment at "Love Saves The Day" festival.
Then the story was that he did a shit in a kettle in the staff room of that festival (possibly true, I saw a picture on twitter...). Gross but not career-ending.
Now the story is that he sexually harrassed people. And he has acknowledged it:
Resident Advisor

It's worth scrolling down to statements from "Anonymous LSTD staff member", the festival and Jackmaster himself.

Funnily enough when the Funk D'Void story broke, I became aware of it through a tweet by The Black Madonna. I see that she and Jackmaster (with Peggy Gou) did some sort of anti-sexism campaign about a year ago. So today someone called out her lack of public statement about Jackmaster in light of this story. She replied:
https://twitter.com/blackmadonnachi/status/1030473630533210115

On the one hand it's not necessaily up to her to speak for Jackmaster, and it's true that the origial tweeter didn't directly address the culprit: Jackmaster. On the other hand if she's going to be consistent on this stuff...maybe she should criticise her DJ friend for letting her down. Perhaps this one's open for debate.

Jackmaster's apology seems heartfelt, although Warehouse Project have quietly dropped his big show at the end of the year as has Motion in Bristol for a more imminent show.
Time to forgive and forget? Maybe.
The only thing is, there are a lot of people on twitter and facebook saying: Will Jackmaster apologise for throwing a chair at my mate's girfriend last year? Will he apologise for puching a guy and then getting protected by his entourage? It sounds like his crappy behavior wasn't a one-off. His career seems to be hanging in the balance.

*EDIT*
Oh look, it's Funk D'Void:

https://twitter.com/funkdvoid/status/1030054369813774336

Kettle:

https://twitter.com/Joseph_M97/status/1029171270930313219

Opinion:

https://twitter.com/NoahFenceMate/status/1029715282321973248

Last Edit: Aug 18, 2018, 00:29 by Wolkenkrabber
Yea though I walk through the valley and shadow of death
every day of my life,
I fear no evil for The Lord is with me.

Quote from: Wolkenkrabber on Aug 17, 2018, 23:26

His career seems to be hanging in the balance.

Them's the breaks, I suppose. Things might look bad for him now, and deservedly so. But it doesn't mean there isn't room for a redemption story. And that goes for Funk D'Void, too. Some legitimate positive PR can go a long way. But being a little bitch on Twitter, is exactly that. Looking at you The Black Madonna.

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.