General Bullshit Chat (pt 2)

[Bosco]

Please forgive me for stringing this nonsense to this forum. But Will Smith, what have you done...

Censored (what I saw/heard)
https://twitter.com/cjzer0/status/1508269982601392138

Uncensored (what I didn't see/hear initially. However, the joke aimed at his wife which preceded the altercation I saw/heard in full.)
https://twitter.com/moreoffilms/status/1508277114398978048

What a terrible moment for who seemingly is a decent person, a good actor, and largely an influential celebrity.

Admittedly, I watched this whole incident "LIVE", however all the key details were largely censored here in America leaving everyone questioning what the hell just happened. [This could be another topic to dive into, and how damaging it is to censor anything in a "live" format, especially nowadays.]

By the time the missing details were filled via social media (thanks Japanese/Australia TV!), Will Smith had won Best Actor and began a very emotional and drawn out acceptance. A man in tears, whether because of regret (from ~30 minutes prior), pride of his hard-work being recognized, or his love of his wife and family around him (maybe a combination of all), never felt so hollow.

Why do I feel the need to share this or discuss this? Well, here we are with another social faux pas on our hands and people are already taking sides and running away with it and spinning it all of sorts of ridiculous ways.

Just what we need right now is another frivolous and selfish moment such as this, to muddy up the waters even more.

The timing of this and the state of worldwide volatility right now, is just overbearing.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, feeling vulnerable, or thinking about it too hard, but I know I feel just about as embarrassed as I was of January 6th, 2021.

[ThePumisher]

Haven't seen the Oscars but the Will Smith thing is all over the news. From what i've understand is that Jada Pinkett Smith has an illnes (Alopecia) causing her to loose her hair. And Chris Rock made a joke about it onstage.

[sandelic]

I understand joke may be in poor taste, but at the end of the day, it is just a joke, and pretty mild one at that.
Reacting to it with violence is simply wrong. Smith did himself no favour.

[Wolkenkrabber]

Weirdly I was up late last night and watched some of the Oscars, but was bored and started streaming Ali on BBC iPlayer (starring Will Smith as the boxer - that was the last time he was nominated). Next thing my phone is telling me Smith just hit Chris Rock. Sounds like I'm making this up, right?

The timing of this and the state of worldwide volatility right now, is just overbearing.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, feeling vulnerable, or thinking about it too hard, but I know I feel just about as embarrassed as I was of January 6th, 2021.

Nah, this is nothing like January 6th. This is something for people to either (1) have fun with or (2) have an argument about on twitter, as far as I can see. I don't think people look on this as "America", just a celebrity spat. Hollywood Reacts (lots of tweets here)

I would be more worried about Joe Biden's recent comments about Putin which weren't much different from the Republican senator who asked if there is a Brutus in Russia.

Someone at the Guardian has tried to go for the psychological angle - with some help from Smith's autobiography: "To hide the coward". And they may be right; he was perhaps standing up for his woman in a way that he wished he had done for his mother when his father beat her. It was weird though, how he was laughing, or a least smiling during Rock's routine until he saw Jada's reaction to the joke and then he seemed to think he had to switch to "angry protector" mode.

The switch kinda reminded me of an incident with his fellow scientologist back in 2005. A UK prank show called Balls Of Steel squirted Cruise with a "water-mic" at a film premiere. I remember a body language expert pointing out that Cruise's instinctive first reaction was to laugh, and then he remembered he's meant to be the movie star in a position of "power/control", so he felt he had to take the upper hand and then force an apology from Channel 4.

Channel 4 says sorry to Cruise.

As for Chris Rock, well he made a joke about Jada back in 2016 when she boycotted the Oscars due to a lack of black nominees. He commented that you had to be invited in order to boycott the thing. Perhaps making a comment about her appearance/alopaecia in front of both of them wasn't wise.  But no, that doesnt make it ok to assault him. If Smith had walked up and put his arm around Rock's shoulder and explained that it wasn't polite to mock hs wife's appearance (I thought she looked fine, incidentally), then Smith could have come out of this as the "good guy".
I'm seeing speculation that Smith may get his Oscar withdrawn. Alas, whether that happens or not, people are always going to remember the time Smith finally won an Oscar... and also hit Chris Rock.

https://twitter.com/winnie_LaLisa/status/1508396721285615618

https://twitter.com/MissingLuci/status/1508396993156157451

https://twitter.com/boni_ferguson/status/1508399761275211783

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeed/status/1508279486994735108

https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/1508279249614086154

This one's my favourite:
https://twitter.com/ClintRLamb/status/1508293103312158730

https://twitter.com/bluntJaat_/status/1508401395728220163


They have to bring Chris Rock back to present next year, flanked by a ridiculous amount of bodyguards on stage. Surely.

[Bosco]

Comparing this to January 6th, 2021 is an overstatement by me, I regret that. But when everyone started to compute this late last night, it felt like the rumblings of another widely divisive moment that would lead down a destructive path of double standards and discussion of acceptable violence. Not to mention the authenticity of the altercation.

By the way, thank you Wolkenkrabber for filling in the rest of the details I left out in my first post.

Ok time to jump to Norm Macdonald reddit and properly skewer this moment.

[MadPooter]

All in all, I was heartbroken to see this moment unfold on live TV.

Those two men are 90s icons. Will Smith has been a household name since the Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Chris Rock a subversive comedic genius.

I hope the two will make peace.

[Bosco]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar captures it perfectly.

https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct

[Explud]

How gentle you've become..

It's just a light slap in the face, he didn't break the face of this fucker.
Plus, discussing what was done intentionally for hype is quite strange.

At one time you say that it is impossible to joke about sick people, at another time when a man defends the dignity of himself and his sick wife with just a slap in the face - this is also impossible, this is also not normal for you.

What kind of moral framework do you have in general? I don't understand.

[sandelic]

Good grief...

[satur8]

At one time you say that it is impossible to joke about sick people, at another time when a man defends the dignity of himself and his sick wife with just a slap in the face - this is also impossible, this is also not normal for you.

There is a lot of nuance to be considered. Yes, Chris Rock's joke was in poor taste whether or not he considered her condition, but the joke wasn't directly referencing the condition. Additionally, he is a comedian known for roasting people and was doing so at that very time to others as well. I'm not defending Rock's joke or style of comedy, but I'm not sure that he was out of line in the big picture.  And dude...that was NOT a "light slap in the face"...Smith wound up for that and sucker-smacked him. Rock took it like a champ, and recovered in a far more professional manner than most of us would have.

Now on to Smith. It's not like he was punching a nazi at a protest. He was "protecting" his wife's honor as if she was property, in reality protecting his own ego, in the most public of civilized settings. He is a professional celebrity and has been dealing with this stuff for more than 30 years, and has certainly dealt his own fair share of insensitive insults (especially during his rise to fame, and people laughed it off). This was no great defender moment from him, and Rock was no bully: hitting someone when we don't like what they say is not what we teach our kids, and our kids would be removed from school or wherever if they did something like this. He, too, should have been removed, but was allowed to stay. Now, his proud moment will always be tarnished by the other. And if that was THE Rock Dwayne Johnson instead of Chris Rock, do you think that would have happened? Smith should have been able to keep his composure because this was a situational reaction.  What's worse, he choose that moment, 20 minutes prior to his nominated category. It was a bad look and I cannot agree that condemning this is hypocritical in a world where we want to stop bullying and insensitivity.

If Smith really wanted to make a statement, he would have gotten up and left and missed his own nomination, and then confronted Rock and the press with words after the show. That would have had a far more positive impact and sent the same message about the importance of his wife's sensitivity. That would have made big press, but not big entertaining memes. What we saw instead was a toxic lack of impulse control from a supposed professional, plain and simple. My friend and I joked that he may have told Rock in the past, "If you make my wife a target again I will bitch slap you, no matter where": this is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.

And on another note...nobody blinks when bald men are mocked daily and publicly. I'm not trying to give a "whatabout" statement here..at all, I'm just saying ...NONBODY likes to lose their hair slowly and without their choice. This was a big moment for alopecia awareness, but maybe also for general empathy for physical traits people cannot control. Bald people, ugly people, short people, fat people, and foreign people are regularly the butt of jokes for appearance, and I agree that should stop. I just do not find this as the defining moment for that change, not with the way it went down and not with the conversations that have come after.

[Bosco]

I'm gonna be a stickler and say I'm actually willing to condone Will Smith's actions in a privatized setting. If he approaches Chris Rock after the show and slaps him, Will basically comes off as straight-up meathead that can't extinguish his ego. It doesn't change the fact that striking someone over a joke is assault, but at least the public eye is largely saved from the multilayered issues it presented.

And I'm aware the dynamics change if it happened that way. More than likely there is some type of instant retaliation by Chris Rock. Thus, he would probably catch some legal heat too. So to his credit, he handled the situation marvelously given what it was.

[Wolkenkrabber]

I'm gonna be a stickler and say I'm actually willing to condone Will Smith's actions in a privatized setting.

Hold on. You pointed us in the direction of the Kareem Abdul-Jabaar article. And I hit it with a like because that may be the most eloquent thing I've read from any sportsperson ever (though he may not say the same for the Spiderman tweets I posted above!). He explains exactly why it's not ok for Smith to hit Rock on behalf of Jada. I think I'm gonna go with his position over yours. Although I will concede I understand the temptation to resort to violence...

Chris Rock... So to his credit, he handled the situation marvelously given what it was.

Agreed there. The initial joke wasn't great but he comes out of this with flying colours. The problem for Smith is that his entire career has been built on being a comedic guy who can laugh things off; wisecrack his way through things. People warmed to that character. It kept his career going even when the hit movies dried up. And less than 15 minutes later he was about to jump back into A-list territory with that Oscar win. But it will be difficult for Hollywood to cast him as the likable guy again now. So Smith has really slapped his own career in the face.

[Bosco]

Hold on. You pointed us in the direction of the Kareem Abdul-Jabaar article. And I hit it with a like because that may be the most eloquent thing I've read from any sportsperson ever (though he may not say the same for the Spiderman tweets I posted above!). He explains exactly why it's not ok for Smith to hit Rock on behalf of Jada. I think I'm gonna go with his position over yours. Although I will concede I understand the temptation to resort to violence...

I don't like it, but I can accept that sometimes words aren't enough and a little shock like entering someones private space with a slap to the face is exactly what makes people think twice in the future. Do I think it was warranted in this case? No, and as a matter of fact, rarely would I think so. But if it's done in a private matter where it doesn't effect the whole world, someone dead, or badly injured, who am I to say how people should resolve minor discrepancies.

So before we get caught up in the nuances of that, let's end it on a high note that I think we all can get behind...

[Wolkenkrabber]

This a bit heavy for a music forum?

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1508347675606929410

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1508348967125504005

https://twitter.com/ClimateBen/status/1509488883767169031

Microplastics found in human blood for the first time.

[SomeAsker]

r/place is up again. if any forumites would like to help leave a chems-shaped mark there for dig your own hole's 25th then help make this layout https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/940132945237254154/960548454327787591/IMG_20220404_223612.jpg come true at around coordinates [1526, 975]. cheers !

[Bosco]

This a bit heavy for a music forum?

Heavy, because the solutions to saving the environment and or save the world from global warming, is largely convincing people in the "civilized world" they have largely lived their lives in vain.

I don't have facts to back this up, but it seems logical that a drop of global population is key to this. Makes you rethink "the pandemic" and whether letting Mother Nature takes its course is the best thing for the human race. I feel dirty saying that, but this is what this subject produces.

Personally, the well being of our environment is something that is always on my mind. It probably gives me more anxiety then I'm willing to admit, and I wish a political party focused on this subject could grab the attention of everyone like it deserves, and put forth action rather than continually discuss its threat towards human race.

[sandelic]

Well, yeah... I'm on my 8th day of Covid diagnosis.
As much as I've been careful not to pick it up, my luck run out.
First few days were awful and now I'm slowly feeling like my old self again.
Who knows how much worse it could have been if I didn't get vaccinated?

[ThePumisher]

Well, yeah... I'm on my 8th day of Covid diagnosis.
As much as I've been careful not to pick it up, my luck run out.
First few days were awful and now I'm slowly feeling like my old self again.
Who knows how much worse it could have been if I didn't get vaccinated?

I hope you're getting well soon. What vaccine did you get?

I had it twice. The first one was last year in summer when traveling back from London after 5 weeks. I wasn't vaccinated back then, i've got a not so funny "flu" but every pcr test taken over 5 or 6 days (you needed them to travel back into the EU) said i was negative. Then i got my first shot of Biontech thinking i was negative, and boom, hell on earth for two weeks. I wasn't negative while getting the first shot...
Then i got it again in february this year, maybe 3 or 4 weeks after my booster-shot. And if the pcr results wouldn't have told me i was positive, i wouldn't even noticed it.

[Bosco]

I've been lucky enough to never notice any major symptoms of Covid. :::knock on wood:::  As matter of fact, I've been the healthiest in my life during these past two years in regards to physical health. I should mention I've made it priority to take on exercise, eating healthier, and being vaccinated (but not boostered, yet).

That being said my mental health and social health has taken a huge hit during this period, which probably can be said for most of us. Not to get too detailed, but this recent winter was really rough for me, I am so very thankful for warmer weather where I can continue to get outside on daily basis.

Anyways, happy to hear you're recovering, Sandelic. Same to you Pumisher.

[sandelic]

I got vaccinated by Pfizer, two times.
Stupidly I've been too lazy to go for a booster shot (my father did) and, while we both got covid, he was much better off.
I had 39.5 degrees temperature for 4 days coupled with splitting headache, he got 38 with no other symptoms for like a day.
I'm convinced he got milder symptoms because of booster shot he got 3 month ago.
Guys, go for booster shot. This bloody thing is still not over.

I've never heard of anyone getting jabbed while sick with covid, I shudder to ask how exactly it went down. What kind of symptoms you got, Pumisher?